[itvt] Interview: Chet Kanojia and John Hoctor, Navic Networks

Interactive TV and addressable advertising specialist, Navic Networks, recently launched two new advertising-related products: an interactive TV SMS couponing service, and Admira, an ad network which uses real-time census-level set-top box data to match advertisers' desired target audience criteria with media owners' inventory, and which the company touts as "the first media placement service to address increasingly fragmented television media." Navic CEO, Chet Kanojia, and the company's VP of business development and marketing, John Hoctor, recently spoke to [itvt]'s Tracy Swedlow about the new products and the strategy behind them; about the company's future plans for the products; about its view of the OCAP and EBIF standards; and more.

[itvt]: You recently launched two new advertising-related products, correct?

Hoctor: Yes. The first one we announced was an application that lets viewers receive SMS messages on their mobile phones, containing coupons or product information and reminders. The impetus for that actually came out of the cable operators' local media-sales forces. Their advertisers were asking them for it. It was one of those nice occasions where you know that a product is going to be well-received, even as you're building it: you're not being completely speculative.

I imagine the reason their advertisers were looking for this kind of couponing service on TV was because there are already Web-based services out there that offer mobile phone coupons, and there's a lot of market-education going on around those services: a number of companies are out there, pitching advertisers directly on the possibility of inviting consumers to subscribe to couponing services on the Internet. So all that activity has built awareness that couponing on mobile phones is an emerging phenomenon, and advertisers in the cable operators' local markets, who buy a lot of 30- and 60-second spots, were approaching the operators' media-sales forces and asking about extending it to television.

Now, we've been enabling interactive TV commercials, that let you click to receive a brochure or coupons by mail, for years now in those same markets. So adding mobile couponing capabilities to our interactive TV offering seemed like a fairly logical next step for us. We started thinking about the technologies that would be needed to enable mobile couponing services: we learned a lot about SMS messaging, SMS gateways, and all those kinds of things, and realized that technically it would be very easy for us to create the kind of connection between the set-top box and the mobile phone that would enable those services. So we went ahead and developed our mobile couponing service--which works seamlessly with our addressable advertising service--and so far it seems to have been very well-received by the advertisers and the cable operators.

[itvt]: Could you describe the viewer's experience of the service?

Hoctor: Sure. Basically, you see an interactive invitation within a 30- or 60-second spot, a microsite or a long-form VOD that lets you know that this particular advertiser is offering SMS coupons. The invitation may say something like, "To receive a coupon via SMS, click here." When you click, you enter your mobile phone number into a blank field, and that's really all you have to do. Navic then takes that mobile phone number and sends you the appropriate SMS coupon for the advertisement you were watching.

[itvt]: Now, obviously, to offer a service like this you need access to the various mobile wireless operators to which your viewers subscribe...

Hoctor: Sure. We use an SMS gateway provider. These are companies that have hooks into all the major mobile phone carriers. You can send a message through one of these gateways, and it's then dispersed onto all the major carrier networks in the US.

[itvt]: In order to offer this new service, what new equipment did you have to add to your existing addressable/interactive TV advertising infrastructure?

Hoctor: None. It doesn't require any new equipment; it leverages the equipment we've already installed for our addressable advertising service. We have a central data center located within the Comcast Media Center in Denver that houses all of the equipment. We have connectivity into all the cable headends; all the messaging gets sent back to this central data center; and from there it goes out, via the gateway provider, onto the mobile phone networks.

[itvt]: You also just announced a new, addressable advertising product called Admira. How does that differ from your existing addressable advertising platform?

Hoctor: That's a good question. Admira is the culmination of years of work and is the first video ad network platform that can provide the backoffice and business system for campaign management, media optimization, and automated buying and selling of fragmented media such as addressable, spot, interactive, VOD and DVR. Addressable advertising in cable is typically defined as providing a specific ad to a specific set-top box. Admira, on the other hand, is the brains behind finding audiences to target, and then uses addressable technologies to target them. It targets audience clusters, at the most granular level possible, by asking and answering the question, "There's an avail on CNN coming up. Based on the attributes of the audiences that are tuned in, what is the   optimal ad to play?" This optimization is necessary because today's television audiences are highly migratory, moving from network to network and show to show. At the time of each avail, the audiences tuned to a particular ad will have certain attributes associated with them that are attractive to certain advertisers. Admira matches the best ad to play with the best opportunity to play it. Of course, it also takes into account the revenue that each ad will generate for the media owner--the cable operator, local broadcaster, programmer, etc.

For instance, if you're a real estate company, and you want to find likely home buyers, you can go into Admira and create target behaviors. Real estate companies are probably interested in placing their ads at times when a high concentration of viewers in an audience cluster have historically tuned into home-and-garden programs, or financial programming, or, even more specifically, have tuned into HGTV or into the program, "Flip that House." So a media buyer uses Admira to define these target behaviors, and Admira searches for opportunities--ad avails--when there is an audience that historically has these target behaviors.

By the way, it's crucial to point out that all of this is based upon anonymous past viewing behaviors. We really don't care who the audiences are, and we don't have their names or any personally identifiable information at all. All we're interested in is that there are anonymous audiences out there that have these behavioral characteristics. The ad decision is made, based upon the entire population tuned in, and the best ad is picked for that entire population.

In addition to historical audience behaviors, media buyers can also set up program content preferences and restrictions--in other words, they choose things like the networks and dayparts they're interested in, and perhaps also the networks and dayparts they're definitely not interested in. They can also specify show names or even keywords or actor names. Admira then only inserts their ad when these program content restrictions are also met. Imagine a movie studio that has a movie opening this weekend starring Tom Cruise. Using Admira, that studio could automatically place ads during programs in which Tom Cruise appears--across all insertable networks and all dayparts.

So rather than an agency buying a particular timeslot, based on an educated guess that the demographics of that timeslot match their goals, an agency figures out what sort of past behavior is indicative of intent-to-purchase for a particular product. Are people who watch home-and-garden shows more likely to be homebuyers? Possibly. That's up to the media buyer or media planner to figure out, and then they go in and they define these target behaviors that they feel are indicative of purchase intent for the products they're trying to sell.

Kanojia: I would say that probably the best way to articulate what Admira is all about is that it's a unified backoffice or a unified business system for various different types of media formats, and addressable advertising happens to be one of them. If you think about all the different advertising formats there are today--linear spots, DVR, VOD, addressable advertising, and so on--none of them comes with a cohesive media-planning/buying/selling optimization system. Admira is Navic's attempt to take all these highly fragmented formats--very effective communication formats, but very fragmented--including Navic's own addressable advertising, and to collapse them into a common business-management system that has some very critical value propositions having to do with efficiency, optimization, and reducing the friction of buying and selling media in the marketplace. Because the space is so fragmented, it's very challenging for a media planner to determine where the eyeballs they need to reach are going to be: remember the old adage that half of the advertising you buy is wasted--you just don't know which half?

Navic took on the challenge of solving this problem, because the company had been exposed to the problem as a result of offering our own addressable product. We feel there's a huge opportunity in aggregating all of these formats, in order to provide a cohesive way for marketers, planners or buyers to design their campaigns so that they reach the people they need to reach, while simultaneously providing a way for media owners--whether they happen to be cable companies or media companies--to make their inventory easily manageable and available, and to apply what I think are pretty sophisticated packaging and pricing rules to all these different media formats. Admira is really an advertising nervous system, for lack of a better term. It's about performing the core business functions for the next generation of media.

[itvt]: Now your press release announcing Admira refers to it using "census-level" data. Could you explain what you mean by that?

Kanojia: It means that it extracts data on the behavior of the entire audience, not just from a sample of the audience. As part of Navic's long involvement in interactive TV advertising, we've developed some pretty sophisticated technologies for real-time audience measurement and for forecasting what an audience's behavior is going to be. Being able to do that on a census level--i.e. on a 100% sample, so to speak--is a very critical innovation. Our belief is that, going forward, advertisers are going to want audience measurement to be carried out on a 100% basis--that is to say, on a completely metered basis.

[itvt]: How far back into aggregate viewing histories does Admira go in order to make placement decisions?

Kanojia: It forecasts events based on data going back up to two years. Let me explain what I mean by that: one of the big challenges in media planning and buying is, "What is such-and-such a spot break going to do?" You have to predict that, and that prediction is a function of what a particular kind of programming is likely to do in a particular daypart or timeslot, in a particular geographical area, and so on. In addition to that, another variable is what current events might be impacting that programming at that time. So we've built a pretty complicated set of algorithms to try to determine all that: they're living, breathing animals in themselves, so to speak, and they're constantly evolving and drawing on intelligence that goes back two years.

Let me give you an example: let's say you're interested in advertising to young, stay-at-home moms who are in a certain income bracket. First of all, you would describe typical programming behavior patterns for that group--so female-oriented programming in the kinds of dayparts when that group is most likely to be watching. You would also put in certain types of geographic cluster information that would be mapped as zones, so that you'd have a sense of what kind of income levels your ads were reaching. Then, once you'd used Admira to define this target audience group, Admira would be responsible for dealing with real-time shifts as they happen in audience clusters. Let's say you'd decided that the stay-at-home moms you were targeting watched a lot of music content--be it VH1, MTV or whatever--during daytime or early primetime or whenever. But then, let's say a celebrity gets arrested and there's a lot of news on the TV about that; or there are forest fires in California. If the target audience group, as a result, begins to shift out of these classic media-planning paradigms--i.e. paradigms such as "let's buy MTV spots to reach a younger audience"--once there's a 5% or 10% shift, on a zone-by-zone basis Admira will then decide where the audience has shifted to, and whether the density of the audience watching VH1, MTV or whatever is still sufficient for your advertising purposes. If it isn't, Admira will automatically make a decision to insert your ads somewhere else, in order to meet your criteria. And all of that data processing and automatic decision-making will take place every minute or every two minutes, depending on how we've configured the system.

[itvt]: Could you explain in more detail how you maintain end-users' privacy?

Hoctor: Yes. We never store any data that includes any personally identifiable information. We assign a unique identifier to each set-top box, but we can never tie it back to the real-world individual who was actually doing the TV-watching. Also, as I just mentioned, what we're looking at is the aggregate viewership, in order to find avails where there are audiences with concentrations of certain behavioral attributes watching. Admira is not solving the question, "What is the best ad for John Hoctor?"; it's solving the question "What's the best ad to play for the audience currently tuned into this avail on CNN?" We actually never know and cannot know anything about the actual viewers.

[itvt]: Couldn't additional privacy issues arise when Admira is used in conjunction with direct-response interactive TV advertising that invites viewers to submit their personal information to an app, in order to get a brochure or whatever?

Hoctor: We don't combine those two kinds of data. I guess even more importantly, we cannot combine them--because it is the cable operator that stores the subscribers' personal information in its billing systems. Navic does not have this information in our systems in any way whatsoever. When an ad is enhanced with an RFI request, Navic merely alerts the cable operator, who matches those up against their subscriber base.

Also, remember that with one of our direct-response/couponing-type ads, the viewer has to opt in twice: in addition to an overlay offering that a brochure be mailed to their home, which is the first level of opting in, there's usually a subsequent overlay, which has some sort of disclaimer on it that their name and address are going to be used for this specific purpose. So the viewer has to opt in again: it's a double opt in, and the viewer is going to be engaging in this transaction with open eyes. At that point, we alert the cable operator that this set-top box would like a brochure for this particular campaign. But that data doesn't go into the viewership database. It's handed off to the cable operator and is never merged with any of the historical viewership information.

[itvt]: What's Admira's capacity? How scalable is the platform?

Hoctor: It's up-and-running on over a million set-top boxes today, across multiple network operators. We built it such that it could scale across the entire US cable footprint. That was one of the principal criteria when we were designing it.

[itvt]: How long does it take it to gather data from those million set-top boxes?

Hoctor: That happens in near-real time. That's because Admira is based on the HyperGate technology that Navic is really known for. HyperGate--which is the technology that allows us to collect data from set-top boxes--is a protocol that we developed in-house, and it was actually the first piece of technology that Navic developed and brought to the industry. It allows Navic to maximize the capabilities of the existing infrastructure that the cable operator has deployed to bring back large volumes of data from the set-top boxes. We're already gathering set-top data at scale--from millions of homes across many of the major US operators. HyperGate, by the way, is the underlying technology that powers all the interactive applications we do, as well.

[itvt]: Just to make sure that there's no confusion, as the brands are similar, could you explain the difference between your HyperGate and HyperCast technologies?

Hoctor: Sure. HyperGate, as I just mentioned, is a last-mile technology that handles the communication from the set-top boxes back to Navic; while HyperCast is more of a backoffice technology that connects various headends and cable operators together, so that we can offer services across multiple operators--whether those services be advertisements or a broadcaster's interactive TV applications.

[itvt]: Now, you were saying that you can extract viewership data from the set-top box in almost real time...

Hoctor: Yes. The process is near real-time. Viewership data is gathered and ready to act upon before the next commercial break. So that next time we need to make an advertising decision, we know all the viewership that's going on in the various cable systems.

As I just pointed out, this is the same technology that we use with the programmers, when we enable real-time voting and polling on their shows. You've reported on the voting applications we did around "Top Chef" and "Last Comic Standing," where we were collecting votes from millions of homes across Time Warner's and Bright House's footprints, and then publishing back the results on overlays on the TV screen--all that was happening in real time, while the show was going on. Typically, they'd run a poll right before a commercial break, and then show the results immediately after the commercial break. It's really that powerful: we're bringing this data back from the cable plant on the order of seconds.

[itvt]: Which operators have deployed Admira to date? Your press release mentioned Cox. I assume you're working with Time Warner Cable...

Hoctor: I can't really talk about which operators are using it. As you point out, Cox was involved in our press release on Admira, so that's public. But beyond that, I'm not at liberty to disclose which operators are participating.

[itvt]: I take it that Admira could work on a satellite TV system, right?

Hoctor: Absolutely.

[itvt]: I mention that because Navic already has a relationship with EchoStar, correct?

Hoctor: Yes. It could certainly work with EchoStar.

[itvt]: What's the long-term strategy behind the development of the Admira platform? Presumably, its roadmap includes branching out into other forms of advertising, such as VOD- and DVR-based advertising, advertising on mobile video services, and so forth...

Hoctor: The long-term strategy behind Admira is that, as new video platforms emerge, selling advertising based on, say, the 8:02 avail on CNN or whichever network is just not going to work with these new platforms. With people increasingly using VOD services and watching programs off their DVR's, with hundreds of new linear channels being added, with more and more alternative video platforms being launched, audiences are getting increasingly fragmented. And, as a result, advertising is going to have to become more and more impression-based.

Admira, simply put, is a system that was designed to handle impression-based advertising. We've started by attacking the problem of linear-TV advertising, because that's where the bulk of the spend is today, and it's an area where we already have a lot of expertise. We thought it would be a better strategy to start where we have expertise and relationships in place, and where most of the advertising dollars are currently being spent, and then branch out into VOD advertising, DVR advertising, and so on.

Now, looking ahead, adapting Admira to make decisions based on DVS 629--the ad-decision-system API standard that's now out there--has been pretty straightforward. On the other hand, for Admira to make decisions as to what ads to play on a DVR, I think the jury's still out on what format DVR advertising will take and what standards it will use down the road. Nevertheless, I think everyone agrees that DVR's will have their own specific forms of advertising at some point--whether those turn out to be 15-second pre-rolls or some other ad format. Agencies and advertisers will need a system to manage campaigns on the DVR and to make decisions as to which ads to play, based upon past viewing behaviors of that particular set-top box. So, VOD, DVR, and other platforms such as mobile video and broadband video, are all certainly on the roadmap for Admira.

[itvt]: And Admira could also work with broadband TV advertising, correct?

Kanojia: Yes. As John just pointed out, spot television is just a starting point as far as we're concerned. There's a very simple reason for that: eyeballs. There are lots of people watching spot television, or rather people watching programming on which spot television happens to be the only viable media format today. But the long-term strategy behind the Admira product is about addressing what we believe to be a huge need in the advertising space for accountability in buying media--so being able to deliver metered impressions--and also a need for a simplified way of buying and selling those media.

So we took spot television as a starting point, viewing it as a huge opportunity in the short-term. But we're actually now working with a variety of media companies, including companies in the broadband video space. That's because we believe that video as a category is going to consolidate from the buyer's perspective: compelling video advertising is expensive to create, and there's a desire on the part of the buyers to ensure that their expensive video ads can be consumed across multiple platforms. Now I'm not sure if mobile fits into that yet, but we're seeing a very strong tendency on the advertisers' side to start thinking about video advertising as something that should be delivered across multiple formats. Perhaps that video will be modified to maximize the strengths of each platform--not every experience will have a 30-second unit--but the reality is that these media buyers need to manage all outlets as one unified, cross-platform campaign.

[itvt]: How far away are you from deploying this platform in a broadband TV environment?

Kanojia: We're actively talking with several broadband video providers about upcoming trials, but we can't really provide more details at the moment.

[itvt]: Are you talking with any IPTV providers about deploying Admira?

Hoctor: Yes. We're certainly talking with all the IPTV providers. Everything we've built to date is definitely applicable to IPTV and we're actively talking with the IPTV providers.

[itvt]: Have you used Admira in conjunction with your interactive TV capabilities yet--have you used it to deliver interactive TV commercials?

Hoctor: Our interactive TV platform is in place in the markets where we are doing our initial roll-out of Admira, and they are working together, and there are no complications stemming from running them both simultaneously in a market. Since they both utilize the same underlying technologies, they actually co-exist quite well.

Of course, having a targeted advertising system like Admira working together with interactive TV ads is where I think the industry is heading. It's really the nirvana of advertising when, on the one hand, you can figure out which is the best ad to play, play that ad, meter that you played out that ad, and actually know how many set-tops tuned in; and when, on the other hand, you can also allow people to interact with that ad, whether through a link to VOD or a microsite, or by requesting information on their mobile phone. It really provides a closed loop for advertisers, because the clicks that you receive on your interactive ads help to fine-tune the targeting decisions that Admira makes next time it places an ad for you. So, if you're running an interactive ad, and you find that you're getting a high click-through rate from it on certain networks during certain dayparts, that information can be fed back into Admira to improve--in real time--its placement decisions for the next avail.

[itvt]: Do you see Admira as disintermediating media buying agencies in any way?

Hoctor: Absolutely not. This is definitely not a play to disintermediate the agencies. We feel that the agencies will simply use it as a tool. For one thing, you still need a fair amount of expertise to understand the ways in which past viewing behavior is indicative of certain types of purchase behavior. We're very proud that a number of the large international agencies are already using Admira to purchase targeted TV impressions for their clients.

[itvt]: Does Admira extract data from VOD viewership?

Hoctor: Admira is certainly applicable for managing VOD advertising based on past VOD viewership. This is related to my earlier comment about using Admira as an ad decision engine for VOD. The real power and opportunity is Admira's ability to manage a cross-platform campaign--linear, VOD, DVR, broadband--really combining linear with any impression-based video advertising.

[itvt]: What's the business model for your interactive TV products and for Admira?

Hoctor: As far as our interactive TV products are concerned, we provide them to the cable operators as a managed service. Typically we host and monitor everything and the operators pay us ongoing fees for providing those services.

[itvt]: And the business model for Admira?

Kanojia: Right now, for spot television Admira's business model is essentially that it's an ad network. What I mean by that is that the media owners that are in the spot television business--local broadcast channels and the cable companies--publish their media inventory in our system and control how that inventory is packaged and priced; buyers then come in and purchase the media electronically, thus driving up yield for the media owners. Navic then participates in that revenue stream by taking a portion of the buy that goes through.

Hoctor: I guess the most important point about the business model is that Admira allows the inventory owners to maintain control over their inventory. It does not ask media owners to give Navic their inventory at wholesale prices. Inventory owners log into Admira and make specific inventory available for sale. Media buyers then log in and set up target behaviors, program content restrictions, and their budget. Admira then optimizes when to play each ad based upon all of these factors.

[itvt]: On average, how many interactive TV commercials is Navic powering on a given day?

Hoctor: Every day, Navic enhances tens of thousands of spot ads across the US. I don't think people realize the extent to which the cable operators are using our interactive advertising technology. It isn't in trial in a handful of markets or anything like that. Navic-powered interactive advertising is something that the cable operators are doing at scale in over 30 markets across the US today. I really don't think people understand the magnitude at which Navic is operating.

[itvt]: Which operators are currently using your interactive TV advertising platform?

Kanojia: We have Time Warner, Charter, Cox and Bright House in the US; and we have Videotron in Canada. Actually, we'll be announcing another operator relationship shortly.

[itvt]: And what kinds of interactive ads are they using it to deliver?

Hoctor: Ads that enable people to telescope into on-demand video, ads with microsites where people can view additional information on a product, and ads that feature applications that allow people to request that information be sent them via mail or via their mobile phones. The interactive overlays on spot ads are often targeted based on the zipcode in which the viewer lives or based upon any information they've shared during previous airings of the spot--like information on the kinds of products they're interested in receiving. And that's not to mention the fact that every day we're powering interactive polls over programming that invite people to voice their opinions in real-time on the underlying video program.

[itvt]: So you don't think that the recent demise of TMG signifies any underlying problems with the US interactive TV advertising space?

Hoctor: No. The cable operators are doing more and more with us every day. We've been steadily ramping up, and we haven't seen any slowdown at all. I'm not privy to all the details around TMG, but I don't think it's an indicator of any problems with the industry. I think the interactive TV advertising industry is very healthy. We have more and more markets being turned on, and we don't have any markets being turned off.

[itvt]: Are you currently working on OCAP applications?

Kanojia: Well, today we're providing applications primarily on Passport, SARA and Motorola. But, as part of our relationship with Time Warner Cable, we have built OCAP versions of Navic applications that are now available to that company. Actually, there's quite a bit of effort underway to support that, both on our part and on theirs. So we definitely view OCAP as an important set-top platform--as an important endpoint for our advertising products.

[itvt]: I take it that you are involved in Project Canoe?

Hoctor: I have no comment on Canoe.

[itvt]: Would that be because Navic isn't involved in it, or because you're not at liberty to talk about it?

Hoctor: I think it's probably not appropriate for me to comment on it.

Kanojia: You've probably heard "no comment" from a lot of people when you ask them about that topic...

[itvt]: It's definitely a very difficult topic to get anybody to go on the record about. I hope that the fact that it's so shrouded in mystery means that we'll actually see some results from that project.

Hoctor: Again, all I can say is "no comment." [laughs].

[itvt]: I take it that Navic is also involved in EBIF?

Kanojia: With EBIF, Navic has, as a strategy, taken the approach that we are not necessarily--at least at the moment--going to be providing the set-top technology to implement that standard. Rather, our approach is much more around...put it this way: we believe that EBIF-enabled advertising will be a great opportunity for Navic to extend our backoffice systems from supporting just Navic-specific application formats to supporting EBIF formats as well.

I can't stress enough that EBIF is fundamentally a format for description of content, that requires business-management, workflow systems, etc.--which is what Navic's bailiwick is. So that's where our focus is with EBIF: it's to continue to expand our backoffice business systems so that they support EBIF applications.

[itvt]: Is Navic planning on seeking additional funding anytime soon?

Hoctor: No. Navic hasn't raised any external financing since early 2001. We've been growing the company based on our sales, and we haven't had any external capital infusion for years. At this point, I can only see Navic considering investment from highly strategic partners.

[itvt]: So I take it you're in the black...

Hoctor: We're incredibly healthy. We have around a hundred people working here now, and, as I just mentioned, we haven't raised money since the beginning of 2001. We couldn't employ that many people without raising new funding, if our business wasn't a very healthy one.

[itvt]: What kinds of announcements should we expect to be hearing from Navic in the coming months?

Kanojia: News about new operators and programmers that are using our technologies, as well as news about some national advertisers that are using the Admira platform specifically.

URL: Navic.TV

Originally Published: November 29, 2007 in [itvt] Issue 7.44

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