Exclusive: Television Academy Co-Governors, Marcelino Ford-Livene and David Jensen

Television Academy Interactive Media Peer Group (IMPG) co-governors, Marcelino Ford-Livene and David Jensen, recently spoke to [itvt]'s Tracy Swedlow about the role the IMPG has been playing within the Academy, about the growing interest in interactive TV on the part of the Academy's membership, about the IMPG's efforts to ensure that its awards-judging procedure is fair, and much more.

[itvt]: I've heard rumors that this year the Interactive Media Peer Group's Emmys might be presented during the Primetime Emmys ceremony, rather than during the Creative Arts Emmys ceremony which takes place a week earlier.

Jensen: Unfortunately, we cannot comment on that at this time. We hope to be able to comment on that soon, but right now, we have no comment.

What we can say at this point, however, is that the Interactive Media Peer Group is a very important part of the Television Academy, and that the other governors and the Academy's Executive Committee fully recognize that we are helping the Academy to negotiate the waters as technology transforms the television viewing experience. I think it's fair to say that the Academy wants to show more recognition that the areas for which the Interactive Media Peer Group is responsible are where TV in general is heading. How all that will play out, we don't yet know, but clearly our fellow governors and the Executive Committee recognize the importance of what our peer group does in keeping apace with how television is being transformed by technology.

Ford-Livene: I agree completely with what David said. I think this year several things are happening that show just how important the interactive Emmys are becoming to the Television Academy. First of all, if you look at the judges we have on our Blue Ribbon panel, you'll see that they include some really world-class people in our space who are now part of the Interactive Media Peer Group. The quality of our Blue Ribbon judging panels, while it has always been high, simply gets better and better every year. I think that's a testament to David's hard work and to the hard work of our Awards Working Group co-chairs, Geoff Katz and Suzanne Stefanac. They've really succeeded in bringing together peers in our industry who are at the absolute top of their field and who are incredibly well qualified to evaluate the finalists. And what has also happened as a result of their efforts is that, as our peer group starts to attract more and more blue-chip professionals and as our membership base grows, we're better able to influence the Academy in general to move to the forefront of the interactive media space. The Academy is looking to our peer group to bring them into the digital age--to help not just the Board of Governors, but both the above-the-line and the below-the-line Academy membership to learn about and really understand the emerging opportunities in interactive media.

[itvt]: Marcelino, I understand you are not only a co-governor of the Interactive Media Peer Group, but also are a member of the Television Academy's Executive Committee. Could you talk a little about the significance of that?

Ford-Livene: Yes, in January of 2006 I became one of the governors' appointees to the Executive Committee of the Television Academy. The Executive Committee is comprised of the Academy's CEO, Dick Askin, its COO, Alan Perris, its general counsel, a number of governors' appointees, and a handful of other members who serve at the pleasure of the CEO. It's basically a small governing body that handles higher level issues at the Television Academy.

[itvt]: So, among other things, you are responsible for representing the interests of the interactive TV/media community on the Academy's governing body. What kinds of issues are you involved with in that capacity?

Ford-Livene: Much of the work done by the Executive Committee has to do with external issues--for example, the Academy's relationships with other entities, such as the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, and also various industry-wide initiatives that the Academy has undertaken. In my capacity as a de facto representative of the Interactive Media Peer Group, much of the work I've been doing on the Executive Committee has had to do with our relationship with NATAS, and what our goals and objectives should be with regards to NATAS and the issue of Primetime Emmys for interactive media.

[itvt]: Now I understand that the Television Academy has some concerns about the increasing number of Emmy award categories that NATAS now has in the interactive media space…

Ford-Livene: I probably shouldn't comment directly on that issue. What I think I can say is that the Television Academy has always--well, at least for the past six years or so--embraced interactive television and interactive media, and that we will continue to provide leadership in this space, not only on this coast, but on the East Coast as well. And I think you'll see some really good things happening in the coming weeks with respect to how we recognize achievement in that area.

From the Executive Committee's standpoint, one thing that is hugely important to our organization is providing leadership and working to help alleviate some of the confusion that is in the marketplace. The Committee and the Television Academy's Board of Governors are looking for ways to improve our ability to carry out that mission, and I think you'll see some interesting things coming down the pipe shortly in that respect.

[itvt]: So, in addition to working on the relationship with NATAS and--though you can't confirm this now--pushing for the Interactive TV Emmys to be presented as part of the high-profile Primetime Emmys award ceremony, you are also doing a fair amount of internal education…

Ford-Livene: Yes. The education process is definitely an important part of what I do on the Executive Committee and of what David and I both do as members of the board. The fact that we have a presence in key positions inside the Academy gives us an excellent opportunity to educate and inform. As we all know, things are evolving rapidly when it comes to technology and television, and we're there to clarify and to provide some meaningful insight into what's happening in this space. Things are happening so rapidly that producers, writers, directors and performers are all being faced with a ton of issues regarding the programming they are a part of, and how it gets distributed, and how it gets monetized, and how it's actually displayed, and so forth. And, unfortunately, a lot of people in the industry don't always read the trades, and some are only now trying to get up to speed on these new TV technologies. So when these issues come up at the Academy, we attempt to address them with clear, simple explanations. And I think that's an area where our peer group has really been stepping up and taking a leadership position this year: trying to provide insights and information that help advance not only our peer group, but that also educate the Television Academy in general about this space. For example, we have participated in Academy roundtable and panel discussions on broadband/interactive media with the producers' peer group, the directors' peer group and the professional representatives' peer group.

[itvt]: Now, the Academy recently changed its rules so as to make programs that are delivered over broadband eligible for Emmy awards, correct?

Jensen: Yes, in 2005 we revised our rules and bylaws so that programs transported--i.e. delivered--by broadband are eligible. Originally, only broadcast programs were eligible; then we made programs delivered by satellite and cable eligible; and now we've opened it up further to broadband-delivered programming. Now, just to clarify, we haven't made broadband TV programming--Web-based programming--a separate awards category. We've simply included that any television program that was transmitted by broadcast, cable, or broadband is eligible for a Primetime Emmy.

Ford-Livene: Exactly. As a result of this change in our bylaws, if, say, a comedy series or a drama has been delivered exclusively over the Web, it can still be submitted for consideration for a Primetime Emmy.

[itvt]: I see that one of this year's finalists is a mobile application…

Jensen: Yes. For our purposes, that would fall into the category of either Program or Services delivered via broadband. But again, I want to make sure that I'm absolutely clear on this: we have not created a separate category of "Broadband Awards" like NATAS has. What we have said is that, if you have a show like "Lil' Bush," which in my opinion is a great example of a broadband-delivered animated program, it's eligible to compete in the animation category against regular broadcast programs.

[itvt]: Were any broadband-exclusive or broadband-originated programs or applications nominated within the Academy's traditional awards categories this year?

Jensen: Not this year. But this is an area where the Executive Committee and the Board of Governors…Well, as Marcelino alluded to earlier, this is an area where you'll see some interesting developments this coming year.

Ford-Livene: We were talking earlier about educating the industry: one of the things we're working on now is trying to get the message out to the marketplace that broadband-delivered programming is now eligible for Primetime Emmy awards. We're figuring out our strategy for messaging this, so that we can get those entries in.

[itvt]: If broadband-delivered programs are increasingly nominated in traditional Emmy categories alongside regular broadcast programs, are you at all concerned that this will reduce the importance of the Interactive Media Peer Group?

Jensen: No. There will still be separate awards for interactive programming. Let's use "Lil' Bush" again as an example: a "Lil' Bush" episode that doesn't have interactive components--that's simply a short-format animated program--would compete in the animation category against broadcast- and cable-delivered animated programs. However, if "Lil' Bush" offered some sort of user experience that involved interactivity--be that an interactive application, complementary social networking features, the ability for viewers to supplement it with user-generated content, or whatever--that would fall squarely into the Interactive Media Peer Group's purview. Also, don't forget that one show can be nominated in multiple categories: so, just as "Desperate Housewives" could be nominated for Best Drama Series, Best Actress in a Drama Series, Best Director, etc., "Lil' Bush" could compete in multiple categories governed by multiple different peer groups. So we don't see this change in our bylaws as eroding the position of the Interactive Media Peer Group: it simply allows the submission to compete in the appropriate awards categories for which the broadband-delivered show is eligible.

Ford-Livene: Exactly. Our peer group should be judging broadband-delivered programs--and other programs--purely on the merits of their interactive components, on how their interactive features enhance the viewing experience. There are other peer groups that are far better suited than we are to judge broadband programs on the merits of their writing, their direction and their performances. We are very happy to focus purely on interactivity, whether on the program side or on the service side. That is the niche that we've carved out for ourselves.

Jensen: Though, at the same time, I should stress that we'll continue to help the Academy negotiate a way forward as broadband and other new technologies transform all aspects of television programming.

[itvt]: Do you feel that there's a lot of interest now in interactive media on the part of the Academy's membership and leadership?

Jensen: Yes. Let me give you an example: three weeks ago, we did a launch event in which we co-presented with Joost. That event saw the largest attendance by governors that an Academy event had seen in a while: almost every governor turned out for that event. They came from all the other peer groups to learn: they want to understand all this stuff and, as it happened, they were blown away by it.

[itvt]: What did the event consist of?

Jensen: Basically, the Television Academy hosted an evening showcasing the Joost platform.

[itvt]: Let's talk a little about the judging process: how do you ensure that the judges' experience of an interactive application or program is the same as that of viewers?

Jensen: This is something we've always been very careful to ensure. Our rules require entrants to submit a DVD of the user experience of their application or program, but also specify that that DVD include a representative portion of that interactive experience in a contiguous form. We require the user experience to be replicated on a DVD because, obviously, we can't guarantee that we'll be able to access the application or program on its original platform--it might, for example, have been available only in a certain cable market. So we put the onus on the submitter to ensure that the user experience is accurately captured.

Now, some folks argue that you can enhance a user experience through editing, despite our contiguity requirement. This is where our Blue Ribbon panel comes in: our opinion is that we've brought together a panel of the world's most prominent experts on interactive television and the interactive user experience, and that they will see through any attempts to game the process. We've actually had situations where our judges realized that an entry wasn't accurately reflective of an application or program, and the entry was disqualified.

[itvt]: To what extent are you receiving entries that contain a lot of marketing materials or that are over-edited?

Jensen: We definitely try to discourage that kind of thing. In the rules for last year and this year, for example, it states that you may use music and voiceovers to explain your interactive applications--because we know that these are complex things and that you might need to use all the tools at your disposal in order to give a good, understandable representation of what you're doing. However, "hyperbolic" music (I'm actually responsible for that wording being used in our bylaws) and marketing collateral and other unnecessary materials will be considered negatively, and may possibly even disqualify you. We don't want marketing tapes. We want things that accurately portray and represent the user experience.

[itvt]: I take it that you can't serve on the Blue Ribbon panel if you're involved in a program or application that's under consideration, correct?

Jensen: Exactly. If you or your company are involved in any aspect of the submissions, you have to recuse yourself.

Ford-Livene: We go to great lengths to make sure there are no conflicts of interest in the Blue Ribbon panel review process. We have a number of parties overseeing the objectivity of the process: there's our awards working group, Suzanne and Geoff; we also have proctors that we bring on who are completely conflict-free; we have a governor present; and we have the Television Academy's SVP of awards, John Leverence, presiding over the Blue Ribbon panel process.

Jensen: Speaking of Suzanne and Geoff, I'd really like to recognize their efforts here if I could. They co-chair this whole process and they really lead it. They make this whole thing happen both for the peer group and the Academy. They led a very large working group that took up a large amount of their time--and caused them to work through a lot of their lunches--over the past six months, in order to organize all this.

Ford-Livene: Good point.

[itvt]: One thing that's noticeable about this year's finalists is that they are very diverse. You've got mobile apps, you've got broadband TV apps, you've got enhanced TV apps…. I'm curious as to whether it just happened that the best entries happened to be on diverse platforms, or did you make a conscious effort to recognize the diversity of interactive TV today?

Jensen: We didn't make a conscious effort to do that. We simply broke out the awards into two categories: Best Program or Show and Best Network or Service, and encouraged people to think in terms of those categories, rather than in terms of the specific platform their application or program was on.

[itvt]: Now, the Interactive TV Emmys are juried awards--in other words, they're not decided by the membership at large. Why is that?

Ford-Livene: Well, there are currently four categories of award that are juried: in addition to Interactive Television, there's Costumes for a Variety or Music Program, Voiceover Performance, and Individual Achievement in Animation. The reason why these categories are juried is because the Academy believes they are areas that are more appropriately judged by experts--as opposed to more general categories like Best Comedy Series or Best Drama Series, where it's appropriate for the membership as a whole to get ballots, view the programming and cast their votes.

Jensen: I'd just like to stress that juried Emmy awards are not in any way to be considered lesser awards. Just like with Best Comedy Series, Best Drama Series or whatever, the winners will receive Primetime Emmy statuettes. The juried awards are no less prestigious--they're just judged in a different way.

Ford-Livene: Exactly. As David just implied, the reason the Interactive TV Emmys are juried is that the Academy feels that they ought to be judged by subject matter experts who really know their craft with respect to interactive television--who really understand the field, and what's been done before and what's possible. By the way, I should add that programming that's being delivered exclusively over broadband and that's been entered in a more general category like Best Comedy or Best Drama will, of course, be judged by the membership as a whole--just like broadcast- or cable-delivered programs in those categories.

[itvt]: When will the winners of the Interactive TV Emmys be announced?

Jensen: Well, our peer group has the right to announce the winners prior to the awards ceremony, and that's what we've done in the past. Whether we do that again this year--or instead announce the winners at one of the awards ceremonies--is something we're still determining even as we speak. As you know, historically we've had a cocktail party before the event, where all the finalists have come together and the winners have been announced. However, we are considering changing that this year.

[itvt]: One thing I noticed about this year's finalists is that, except for "Heroes Interactive," the cable industry wasn't really represented, correct?

Jensen: Not this year, but obviously they have been historically. They've won a number of times. I actually noticed this too: I think it's just due to a combination of what gets submitted and how the jury process happens to work out.

[itvt]: So it didn't have anything to with the fact that OCAP has yet to be widely deployed. Did that issue come up in the judging process?

Ford-Livene: No. Those kinds of more general questions about platforms, software and toolsets tend not to come up--even though a lot of us are very aware of OCAP and the challenges currently facing the cable industry. What usually happens during the judging process is that there's a lot of simple excitement, interest and enthusiasm, because everyone sees all the other people in the room and says to themselves, "Gee, I must have arrived, because I'm in the company of so many high-powered people in this space." And then they get down to the serious business of evaluating.

[itvt]: As you know, one very important aspect of interactive television is interface design. Do you feel that the Interactive TV Emmys reflect this importance?

Jensen: Absolutely. Interface design is considered in both categories as a criterion for evaluation. It's actually a very important criterion. We don't pull out design as a separate award category and have an award solely for that--perhaps simply because it is so important to any interactive TV application--but it is a major element of the judging process. Of course, the awards working group could say that they wanted a separate award for design and user experience, but that's not something that we've felt the need to do yet.

[itvt]: Can you hint at some of the news we might be hearing out of the Interactive Media Peer Group over the coming year?

Ford-Livene: Our Membership and Education Committee, in addition to all of our peer group's executive committees, are working hard to increase the membership base in our peer group. I think you'll see over the coming months more and more people in our space becoming members of the Television Academy.

URL: http://www.emmys.tv

Originally Published: July 24, 2007 in [itvt] Issue 7.37

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